Letters to numbers in minor keys / writing triplets - Issues

#1
Hi there,

Firstly just want to say...lovin the 1Chart app....has become my go to app for charting anything and using with a number of bands to get structures together quickly.

Have a could of questions that I’d really appreciate some help with:

1. If I write a chart out in a minor key in letter format and then switch to the Nashville numbering I get incorrect numbering...the same thing happens if I go from numbers to letters. This becomes a problem in our band as some people like numbers and some like letters. When I write the charts I number as per the natural minor which I believe is correct. However if I’m writing a chart in a major key this transfer works fine no problems. Is this a known issue?

2. How do you write three different chords that need to be played in triplet? I can add a triplet above a single chord but not for different chords.

Many thanks for your help in advance

Chris
 

Mark

Administrator
Staff member
#2
I always like to hear someone is loving the app! Thanks, Chris.

Following up on your questions...

1. I think the "standard" way of dealing with minor keys in NNS, at least for those who want to use the natural (/relative) minor approach, is to use "6m" for what is essentially the home/tonic. For ex., if Am sounds like "home," the standard approach is to think of it this way: Am is the relative minor of C, so the chart is written as if it's in C, which means Am is indicated as 6m — and the Key shown in your chart's header would be C. If you're writing charts this way, all should be good in 1Chart when translating back and forth between number chords and letter chords.

There is at least one other way of dealing with minor keys... and that's to simply write 1m (meaning Am would be 1m in the above example, and the chart key would be Am). There are those who do not approve of this approach at all! But it works in 1Chart, as well.

Let me know if you've got another approach that you're trying to accommodate.

2. For a triplet above three chords, use the forward blue arrow (at top left of keyboard) to advance the cursor. For more detail, please see "Add a triplet over multiple chords" on this page:
https://www.1chartapp.com/help-rhythm-notation/

Hope that helps!
 
#3
Hi Mark,

Many thanks for coming back so quickly. The triplet issue works fine and looks great on the page..thank you!

On the issue of writing in minor. Thanks for taking the time to explain so clearly.... personally my preference would be to steer away from thinking of a minor as a relative major. Writing C major in the header when the piece is in Am seems misleading and counterintuitive...1- 4- 5- in G would intuitively be Gm Cm Dm progression. Using the relative major way would also ask the question whether you need the option to write minor keys at the top at all.

So the approach I’m currently using is aligned to


Wasn’t completely clear on your second approach...sounded like the approach I’m taking..however it doesnt render correctly if you switch to letters. See attached example.

Hope this makes sense...and really appreciate your help with this as would be a massive win to be able to do this for the bands I play with.

Cheers

Chris
 

Attachments

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Mark

Administrator
Staff member
#4
Ah, I see what's going on... and let's put aside the 6m "relative minor" thing for a minute, since you're using the approach that says "if the song is in A minor, I'm writing A minor as 1 minor."

In the video, and in your charts, there's no use of accidentals to indicate that, for example, the 3 chord is flat. You're in a minor key, so you might want to assume that the 3 chord is flat, but I've never heard of anyone using the number system this way. Granted, everyone can make their own rules to some degree when charting, but 1Chart is built on the convention that flats and sharps will be indicated — there's no assumption that, because you're in a minor key, any 3 you write is flat. You'll need to mark the 3 as flat if you want letter/number translations to work correctly.

So in your chart in the key of Dm, if you write the 3 chord as b3, it will translate to letters as F. Similarly, for the 7 chord, if you write that as b7, it will translate as C.

I don't want to say leaving out accidentals is wrong, but... it's at least not standard. And to reinforce: If you use accidentals, 1Chart knows how to do number/letter translations appropriately. Let me know if this all makes sense!
 
#5
Ahhhh I see!!!!! That makes complete sense. I had misunderstood the video...had interpreted the 3 and 7 chords to be written as that...3 and 7! Wondered why it got some chords right and others wrong when I changed to letters. So just need to add the flats into the charts. Actually makes it easier to visualise!

Many thanks for all of your help with this..much appreciated. Have another question/idea re collaborating on files but will raise on a separate thread.

Cheers

Chris
 

Mark

Administrator
Staff member
#6
Well I actually think that video is confusing and not very specific. Like when he says "Play 1, 6, 3, 7, 1." He's leaving out a lot of info there about flats and minors. :)
 

Pete

New Member
#7
Hi Chris, that was a very interesting video but as Mark points out above, that's not the "standard" way the NNS approaches minor keys. Over on the steel guitar forum this issue was discussed a while back, with several top nashville studio players weighing in on the topic.

The consensus was that in nashville studio use, minor keys are (or should be unless you want frustrated session players when tape rolls) indicated by their relative major and numbered accordingly (i.e. a song in Aminor would have "C (Am)" at the top of the page, and numbers would start with 6m for the Am and so forth).

The major reason for this was as Mark points out, there are a lot of major/minor/flatted/diminished chords that can vary and have to be explicitly specified depending on natural/melodic minor modes, etc if you use Am = 1m.

I can find the link for you if you are interested. Cheers!

----

edit : found the link : https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1832029#1832029
 
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